tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730514995199630178.post6700644841972567315..comments2024-02-17T01:36:06.347-08:00Comments on Learning and Sharing with Ms. Lirenman: I'm Not in Control of My ClassK Lirenmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16058037226665551154noreply@blogger.comBlogger42125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730514995199630178.post-91074789128858969002013-04-30T05:17:44.174-07:002013-04-30T05:17:44.174-07:00Interesting Topic
thanks for share thip to...Interesting Topic <br /><br /> thanks for share thip topic ....<br /><a href="http://www.powersportsindustries.com/" rel="nofollow">riding gear california</a>Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07025178406430342355noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730514995199630178.post-89710802516577855622013-03-30T00:03:23.644-07:002013-03-30T00:03:23.644-07:00I couldn't agree more that "giving up con...I couldn't agree more that "giving up control (without giving up on learning and growth) is far more challenging than keeping that control" but it just seems like such the right way for me to teach. This evening I was watching a video shared by Ira Socol and how students are learning in his school. Wow was all that I could say. It can be found here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-RZKncj5gc . It makes me wonder where my teaching is going to head, and if or when some one from above will step in and tell me that I've gone too far. Thank you for taking the time to leave me a thought provoking comment. K Lirenmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16058037226665551154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730514995199630178.post-44800689001374227592013-03-14T11:44:47.799-07:002013-03-14T11:44:47.799-07:00Hi Karen,
I discovered your blog through twitter ...Hi Karen,<br /><br />I discovered your blog through twitter and enjoyed this post.<br /><br />I'm an educator at an alternative, independent high school in Vermont, USA. We work with youth who -- for a variety of reasons -- haven't been successful in a typical school setting. Given this, we intentionally do school "different," in that we are very student-centered and student-directed -- in other words, we try out best to do the very things that you describe in your post!<br /><br />It's great to read such a thoughtful post about something that I believe is so important, and it's heartening to know that this approach is happening more and more in "typical" classrooms, rather than just in "alternative" schools. <br /><br />Speaking from my own experience, giving up control (without giving up on learning and growth) is far more challenging than keeping that control. It continues to be an ongoing process of learning and growth FOR ME, as I work to continually improve in my ability to support my students.<br /><br />Thanks for your thoughtful and motivating post!<br /><br />- Jenn (@jennEDVT)@JennEDVThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14088809791184948551noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730514995199630178.post-88678524798438530282013-03-03T23:03:15.091-08:002013-03-03T23:03:15.091-08:00Thanks Dave,
I am trying to do what I think, at t...Thanks Dave,<br /><br />I am trying to do what I think, at this moment in time at least, is the right thing for my students. Sometimes it's not easy though and I have constant questions and at times self doubt. <br /><br />I'm glad you've found what I'm doing inspiring. I need to hear that from time to time. It helps me get through the challenging times.K Lirenmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16058037226665551154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730514995199630178.post-60494368029898109472013-02-26T05:55:43.493-08:002013-02-26T05:55:43.493-08:00It's February, and I can already say that you&...It's February, and I can already say that you've written one of the best posts of 2013! I love every part of this post!<br /><br />You have empowered your students (and yourself) as learners first. School isn't about herding cattle through fenced-in graded classrooms, it is about students being set free, with a teacher helping to guide their path. <br /><br />Thanks for being so inspiring!David Trusshttp://pairadimes.davidtruss.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730514995199630178.post-12341531510987340552013-02-17T11:06:22.105-08:002013-02-17T11:06:22.105-08:00Thanks, I do them every day, through out the day w...Thanks, I do them every day, through out the day whenever I have time. Because my students are quite independent for so many parts of my day I am free to conference then. I agree that tgreat teaching/learning happens during those 1:1 conferences.K Lirenmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16058037226665551154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730514995199630178.post-75437288786942816462013-02-17T11:01:39.078-08:002013-02-17T11:01:39.078-08:001:1 conferences are my favorite part of the week. ...1:1 conferences are my favorite part of the week. I do them every first day of the week, with half of the students. That way, I see the other half of the students the next week. I feel like I need to stretch it, though, to every three weeks, so I can pop around the class (this is during Genius Hour) and see what kids are doing, and then even have time for ME to model learning behavior as well. It's during the 1:1 conferences students fill out the reflection questions I have for them. I LOVE it! Best use of class time EVER! Good luck getting more time for this!Joy Kirrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08883167887036480979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730514995199630178.post-70461510218401737792013-02-17T10:56:41.954-08:002013-02-17T10:56:41.954-08:00Thanks tons for taking the time to leave this comm...Thanks tons for taking the time to leave this comment Joy. I too have been reading Who Owns the Learning by Alan November and I've been pleasantly surprised that I am, in many areas, on the right track. I'd love to go to his conference one day. One thing that I just learned last week after a small session with Anne Davies (a HUGH ASSESSMENT GURU), is that even when kids rate themselves we still need ask why they have given themselves the numbers they have given. I am always confused when I have students who have barely do any work and give them selves a three or a four. Anne clarified that we need to talk to those children to understand their thinking behind their rating. She said that sometimes kids have been working on one specific goal (such as writing their name neatly) and so if they have been successful with that goal then their work rating some just from that one goal. So, really 1:1 conferences are once again proven as the BEST way to truly assessment students. I keep trying to find ways to do this more.K Lirenmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16058037226665551154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730514995199630178.post-46170200550883335582013-02-17T08:23:06.699-08:002013-02-17T08:23:06.699-08:00Karen,
I read your post when you published it, but...Karen,<br />I read your post when you published it, but there were so many items I wanted to comment on (I totally agree! or I wish I would have done that earlier! or I need to do that NOW! or I'm putting that down for next year for sure!), that I didn't know how to organize my thoughts to comment. Alas, I'm commenting now, but I'll still be all over the board.<br /><br />So... One thing I want to do is thank you. Just after I read this, I changed my self-assessment for Genius Hour to add a line about motivation. Many of my students are not choosing wisely when it comes to goals. They are all over the place, too, but I think it's just to placate me, and not because it's important to THEM. So I added a line like this - "How motivating of a goal was it for you?" Then I added your four-point scale - "I didn't work well at all," "I did my best," etc. I think this piece of the reflection will get them thinking of what motivates them, not just "I'll write a goal down so she's satisfied and I can get out of here."<br /><br />I'm currently reading Who Owns the Learning by Alan November, and I've been to his BLC conference in Boston where this idea was stressed. I've been trying. As you say, it can be more work for us. But in a different way. I think it's in a much better way than how I used to teach. Every child received the same work, and it was, many times, worksheets that were easy to grade in front of the television. Now I think more about EACH and EVERY one of the 63 students that come into room 239. I feel my instruction is much more personalized, and I feel the students KNOW we are not doing "meaningless" or "throw-away" work.<br /><br />Thank you so very much for sharing - sorry it took me so long to comment! Because I waited so long now I have to look at everyone else's comments and learn even more from them! <br /><br />Take care, and keep it up!Joy Kirrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08883167887036480979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730514995199630178.post-259907199467588392013-02-16T23:31:18.070-08:002013-02-16T23:31:18.070-08:00MIchelle I love this part of your comment "I ...MIchelle I love this part of your comment "I think the idea of students being too young to understand or make appropriate choices resolves them of their responsibility" and I could NOT agree more. I also love , "Our students have voices that need to be heard,and they also need opportunities to make choices and take responsibility for their learning, even in primary...because they CAN =)" That is why I do what I do.<br /><br />Thanks for taking the time to leave me a comment, and for posting this on your blog too. I hope it helps your community see a different side of "school". :-)<br />K Lirenmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16058037226665551154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730514995199630178.post-75140484380522090492013-02-16T23:24:35.879-08:002013-02-16T23:24:35.879-08:00Beverley thank you or taking the time to leave suc...Beverley thank you or taking the time to leave such a thought provoking comment. I agree there is a lot of great discussion here. I do believe when we give our students a role in assessment of their learning, just like when we give them choice in how to learn, show, and share their knowledge, they are a whole lot more apart of their learning. That's what I strive for with my teaching. But, I am not saying that I sit off to the side and let my students learn how they choose to learn. The reality is the more choice I give my students the more I have to be on top of everything. I must be watching and facilitating as needed. Rarely will you see me sitting and just looking at work with out a child right near me. I look for any free moment I can to grab a student and have that quality 1:1 time with them because I believe that is the best way I can meet each and every student's need- or at least that's my goal.<br /><br />As I said earlier, I don't have to assign letter grades of any sort so unlike you it isn't something I have to unteach my students. But what about if you never give your students grades, yet you keep a simple form of them in your mark book so when you "have to" assign a grade on the report card you have some "numbers" to help you assign your letter grade. If your students are doing everything they are doing then that really should be enough no? And why do you feel you have to justify yourself to others? I stopped justifying a long time ago. When I need to explain what and why I do what I do I can and will. <br /><br />Beverely if it makes you feel any better my class looks different from any other I've been in. Sometimes I wonder if I'm doing things wrong but more often than not I am doing what I'm doing because I honestly believe it is the right way for my students. I am a very reflective practitioner and I no longer do things just because "everyone is doing them". That isn't good enough for me any more. I am conscious with most of the decision I make with regards to my students. I'm not perfect of course but I am trying to do my very best with the knowledge that I have about my students and their learning styles. Looking forward to seeing you F2F again. I wonder if they will bring our group back together anytime soon. K Lirenmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16058037226665551154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730514995199630178.post-50521193679525665272013-02-16T23:05:18.980-08:002013-02-16T23:05:18.980-08:00It is not easy, and it never will be for me when I...It is not easy, and it never will be for me when I let my students lead the way but I do believe it's the right way to teach. Thanks for taking the time to leave a comment. If you're ever in my part of the world please do say hello.<br />K Lirenmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16058037226665551154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730514995199630178.post-57792530433447900422013-02-16T22:53:20.848-08:002013-02-16T22:53:20.848-08:00I want my future class to be just like yours!! Tha...I want my future class to be just like yours!! Thanks for this post.<br /><br />Helena<br />(Student-Teacher)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730514995199630178.post-85306219691641296132013-02-13T15:49:08.930-08:002013-02-13T15:49:08.930-08:00Hi Karen,
You put into words EXACTLY what I'...Hi Karen, <br /><br />You put into words EXACTLY what I've been working hard to explain to my students and their parents. In fact, I posted your blog on our classroom website, directing parents to read it!<br /><br />All to often, I hear "but they're only six and seven". I think the idea of students being too young to understand or make appropriate choices resolves them of their responsibility -- when strategies are taught,carefully modeled, and consistently emphasized throughout the year, young students CAN and will do these, and more! <br /><br />Choice is incredibly important in the classroom, because it allows students an opportunity to show their learning in ways that are unique to them. We abide by four expectations in our classroom:<br /><br />1. Respect yourselves, each other, and our classroom<br />2. Work as a team<br />3. Use "build ups" and no "put downs"<br />4. Listen attentively <br /><br />Provided my students are working on task and are giving their best, in consideration of these expectations, it doesn't matter to me where they are sitting, what tools they are using, or when they need to take a break to use the washroom or get a drink. We spend SO much time in September focusing on learning skills and goal-setting, that once we dive into the curriculum, they understand why taking 15 minute washroom breaks will not benefit their learning. Students will often move to a quieter place in the room, either because they were being distracted or they were doing the distracting, without being prompted to do so. The importance of having these continued conversations help them to reflect on their learning and their personal goals, which is something you addressed so eloquently in your post. <br /><br />I had to laugh when I read your opinion on "cute" -- my point exactly! I share with my students that our anchor charts are not intended to decorate the room, rather, they are tools that provide necessary strategies and steps, and are to be used daily to guide their thinking! In our classroom, we don't have room for anything that doesn't benefit our learning!<br /><br />Thank you for taking the time to share what works in your classroom, and what needs to be happening in classrooms across the world. Our students have voices that need to be heard,and they also need opportunities to make choices and take responsibility for their learning, even in primary...because they CAN =)<br /><br />MichelleMichelle Horsthttp://www.chatt.hdsb.ca/~horstm/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730514995199630178.post-50662788439669245672013-02-11T19:42:23.982-08:002013-02-11T19:42:23.982-08:00So much amazing discussion happening here! I would...So much amazing discussion happening here! I would love to say that students are in control in my classroom, but I know that's not always the case. I have a long way to go! I've changed nearly everything that I do this year, and have experienced a lot of learning myself. In particular, I've come to realize that many students are not ready for such open ended learning despite my passion and encouragement; my mission is to keep pushing them to be more creative, more inquisitive, and more engaged. I've definitely moved toward choice for students, but like Gallit, assessment remains my biggest challenge. Don't get me wrong... I constantly advocate for student choice (in any program!) and I have nothing but admiration for people like you, Karen, who seem to have had so much success! It's just so hard to maintain when it's not what the majority of classrooms look like! It makes me feel like I have to justify students' learning in a way that "everyone" understands rather than in the way I feel is best. I have moved towards more self assessment with my grade sevens and I continue to offer descriptive feedback but I do still use rubrics as well. I agree that conferencing is probably one of the most valuable approaches, along with self reflections and portfolios. I think those three methods would accurately represent almost any student's learning. My question is, why is that not enough?<br /><br />I think the major issue lies with report cards. I try to encourage my students to reflect deeply on their learning (where they are, where they want to go, how they're going to get there) but as long as I have to attach a letter grade to it at term's end, as grade sevens, many will not just let go and let the learning happen. So much unlearning to do!<br /><br />This is why it's so crucial to support each other along our own personal learning journeys :)<br /><br />BeverleyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730514995199630178.post-62767579875555453292013-02-11T08:47:35.019-08:002013-02-11T08:47:35.019-08:00Frances, I love what you are doing in your art cla...Frances, I love what you are doing in your art classes. I need a lot of help there so I will be sure to check out your blog. <br /><br /> If you reread what I wrote about Pinterest you'll see that i agree there is a lot of good there too. But I also see a lot of cookie cutter crafts. I am trying to avoid those in my classroom. I must admit I still have a way to go there too. K Lirenmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16058037226665551154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730514995199630178.post-8797700980726692242013-02-11T07:34:05.108-08:002013-02-11T07:34:05.108-08:00I teach choice based art classes, but don't ag...I teach choice based art classes, but don't agree 100% with you about Pinterest. I don't do cookie cutter art, but Pinterest goes way beyond cookie cutter art ideas. It is a place you can find links to scholarly ed articles, and techniques for ways to use art media, as well as recipes for home made art materials. I do a lot of demos of materials in my classes, and help students to expand their thinking about ways they might use materials. I've found plenty of ideas on Pinterest that I've been able to incorporate into my teaching without ending up with class sets of nearly identical art. You might enjoy reading my blog about choice based art ed. Here's the link: http://francifularts.wordpress.comAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730514995199630178.post-66923967159192594932013-02-10T23:32:18.996-08:002013-02-10T23:32:18.996-08:00Yes, I think it is important to share those learni...Yes, I think it is important to share those learning intentions, but I found it strange to have them written in a classroom of non readers. Hmm....K Lirenmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16058037226665551154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730514995199630178.post-80211881141948753742013-02-10T23:21:23.985-08:002013-02-10T23:21:23.985-08:00You are so right, AnneMarie! Why do I feel like I...You are so right, AnneMarie! Why do I feel like I need pages of marks?? Hmmm...thank you for bringing that up.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06591650557405976201noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730514995199630178.post-55076787647432666452013-02-10T23:19:18.493-08:002013-02-10T23:19:18.493-08:00This is my first year posting all (almost all) Lea...This is my first year posting all (almost all) Learning Outcomes on the board & making them clearly known to the students and I really like it!<br /><br />I'm pretty sure it was Hugh's idea. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06591650557405976201noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730514995199630178.post-39405644500124295672013-02-10T21:42:53.373-08:002013-02-10T21:42:53.373-08:00Dianna if your "cute" is teaching a proc...Dianna if your "cute" is teaching a process or a skill then the chances are it's more than just cute.<br /><br />I like your idea of looking at the performance standards from levels other than your own. I also agree that there is a time and place for traditional assessments. Just on Wednesday I checked to see if my students could read out weekly word wall words. In a very traditionally way I listed to each student, one at a time, read the list of words to me. Im not sure how else I would have known if they knew them or not, and which words we still need to work on. No where am I saying that all traditional ways of assessing are bad. It's way more about the thought behind the choice when choosing an assessment tool<br /><br />So many amazing SD36 teachers leaving comments on this blog this evening. What an amazing group of educators I'm fortunate enough to work so closely with. Thanks for taking the time to share your thinking too. K Lirenmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16058037226665551154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730514995199630178.post-40117897485972807102013-02-10T21:35:35.509-08:002013-02-10T21:35:35.509-08:00Intermediate teaching in BC is different than prim...Intermediate teaching in BC is different than primary teaching because we don't have to put a letter grade on our students report cards. That does make things different for me in comparison to you and Gallit (and those in Ontario that start giving letter grades as early as grade one. <br /><br />I often talk about this with my good friend and work colleague Erica. She gives her students descriptive feedback, but in her own book she rates their work on a ten point scale. The students never see this number though. It's her way of finding balance. <br /><br />Thanks for your kind words too AnneMarie. I work VERY HARD to do what I do with my students. I am passionate about my job and I care too much about my students to not give them my best. If I expect the best from them, I most certainly should be modelling my best for them. Like for them, it most certainly isn't always easy.K Lirenmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16058037226665551154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730514995199630178.post-79978659256622570922013-02-10T21:27:37.383-08:002013-02-10T21:27:37.383-08:00Gallit, even when my students work in groups I sti...Gallit, even when my students work in groups I still need to find out if they can do x, y, or z independently if that is something I'm assessing. If you're not getting that information from your assessment then you *may* need to find a way to do that. 1:1 conferencing is so awesome for that and as someone mentioned on here, since my students are so independent I have more time for those one on one chats. It's the darn interruptions during my teaching day that bring me the most grief. Balance is key, and thinking about the tool or way you assess is important too. Thanks for adding to the conversation here. It's getting richer by the comment. :-)K Lirenmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16058037226665551154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730514995199630178.post-18055992481600372142013-02-10T21:19:12.151-08:002013-02-10T21:19:12.151-08:00It's interesting, the last time I've seen ...It's interesting, the last time I've seen posted objectives, like written right on the group meeting place white board, was while I was visiting a school in Australia in March 2011. At the time i found it a bit strange because these were children that were not reading, yet here at their meeting place the objective of the lesson was clearly written on the bulletin board. What I tend to do is in my planning document (which I call a day book) I clearly (most of the time) write down what the focus of my lesson is. It helps keep me on track, and I can, when necessary relate this information to my students.<br /><br />As most are alluding to, there are times for traditional teaching and assessment practices too. I totally get that. As much as I try I can assure you my students don't have choice with everything they do. I wish it could be like that for me (and my students) but I'm not there yet either. It's a journey for us and I'm happy that I'm taking these risks and seeing where they take me. I'm sure there will be many bumps along the way though.K Lirenmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16058037226665551154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730514995199630178.post-90685599093711943222013-02-10T21:14:33.055-08:002013-02-10T21:14:33.055-08:00Wow, what a great conversation! I also explicitly...Wow, what a great conversation! I also explicitly teach social skills because I see them as the foundation for all we do in school and society. Being ready to learn and take risks to explore new things depends so much on the environment in the classroom and a child's emotional security. <br /> <br />In the area of assessment I have recently started looking at my students who fall in the "not yet within" category and refer to the previous grade's Performance Standards to see where they would land...and sometimes I have to go back even further. This gives me a better idea of where they fit on the developmental continuum and also gives me a concrete way to talk with parents about their child's progress and how we can work as a home and school team to move the child forward. <br /><br />This works with numeracy as well as reading, writing and social responsibility. I find this fits in well with PBL because it looks at the strands and not the individual PLOs. (I can't remember where I got this from, but it wasn't my idea!). I do rely on self reflection, observations and conferencing to gain the majority of my assessment data-however I still use a variety of more "traditional" assessments to establish baseline data (eg. for computational skills or decoding skills) and I feel it is important to expose children to a variety of assessment formats. (note the word expose, not torment!) <br /><br />The disconnect is really between the university expectations for percentages for applications and what we do as educators to develop skills. I really believe that until the universities change how they look at potential candidates and how they assess and rank for degree granting, we will be required to play their game to some extent. <br /><br />As far as the "cute" stuff goes...I'm guilty as charged! I do enjoy a little cute from time to time, especially when its seasonal and it teaches a process or skill.<br /><br />Thanks for such a lively and well thought out post Karen!Diana Williams @teacherdiana1http://www.teacherdiana.comnoreply@blogger.com